question

Luca Frizzarin avatar image
Luca Frizzarin asked ·

Camera(AA) noisier than Preview(AA)

Hi, I noticed that while rendering with activeshade in 3dsmax2020, the final render pass is noisier than the previous elaborated in Preview (AA) phase. Edges looks more messy. I'm using CPU engine. This happens with last update (4.0.2.24) AA Update: It happens also with production render. I discovered the trigger: it happens when AOVs file output is enabled. When AOVS output is disabled, the production and the activeshade render go perfectly. ---------UPDATE--------- Same here, Here's my max file and output file >>> https://we.tl/t-oEX87MDOuC To reproduce this issue I opened 3ds max and set Arnold as production & activeshade render. Then I created a plane and a teapot and I assigned them two materials from "MAXtoA-standard_surface" matlib. I assigned the physical sky to env background. All parameters has not been modified, so it's all default. After that, if I render with AOVS enabled (using presets direct/indirect and/or components) i'll get this unusual "jagged AA": test-noise-AOVs-ON when AOVs are disabled, I'll get this right one: test-noise-AOVs-OFF PS: sorry I can't post replies: i get this error qhen clicking "reply" or "leave comment" Unable to execute your request / We're sorry, but we're unable to execute your request at this time. You may be seeing this page because you attempted to submit data on this site without first loading an appropriate form. Please attempt to visit the homepage of this site and then try your action again. If you believe this error is incorrect, please contact the site administrator(s).
10 |600 characters needed characters left characters exceeded

Up to 5 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 2.0 MiB each and 9.8 MiB total.

Stephen Blair avatar image
Stephen Blair answered ·

Fix is in the latest upate: https://docs.arnoldrenderer.com/x/kgDJBg


This happens when you have AOVs enabled, right?

This is a known issue and we're working on a fix.

Share
10 |600 characters needed characters left characters exceeded

Up to 5 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 2.0 MiB each and 9.8 MiB total.

jack frost avatar image
jack frost answered ·

Recent Arnold versions seem to have a more general problem with sampling. For example the sample settings of the dome light seem to be quite useless. At 4 global camera samples and 12 dome light samples it's still very noisy. With Arnold 4 it was very good with 4 dome light samples already. It seems very difficult to get the dome light clean at all.
The same goes for volumes. I have to use a much higher sample number comapred to Arnold 4 and it's still more noisy. And takes longer of course. And yes, I have adaptive sampling off.
I don't know exactly when this started but the late Arnold 5 versions had the same problem as well.

One thing I liked about Arnold is that the settings were predictable and precise. Both is not the case anymore.

The attached package conatins both scenes as well as the resulting images.


asamp.zip (1.7 MiB)
6 comments Share
10 |600 characters needed characters left characters exceeded

Up to 5 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 2.0 MiB each and 9.8 MiB total.

Thanks for supplying a repro! In this particular example the skydome_light.samples setting, is actually ignored because it tends to give better performance/quality. The missing step here is that you either need more camera rays (try adaptive sampling, it makes these decisions easier) or enable diffuse bounces (at least depth 1) and in this particular case I found that diffuse samples set to 2 produces a pretty good image. Remember to lower the skydome_light.samples back to 1, since even though we are not actually casting these rays, there is still some overhead in deciding not to cast them.

1 Like 1 · ·

Do note that in scenes with more complex skydome_lights, the skydome_light.samples does have an effect.

0 Likes 0 · ·
the skydome_light.samples setting, is actually ignored because it tends to give better performance/quality

Obviously not in this case.

So the global diffuse samples do have an effect now even if the diffuse depth is 0. That's different from Arnold 4.

However, these are global settings and that's exactly what I don't want. How about letting the user decide that?
For example, setting the dome light samples to -1 would set it to automatic like it is now. But as soon as the samples are 1 or more it takes these.

0 Likes 0 · ·
So this workaround with the global diffuse samples works as mentioned. However it has no effect on volumes and I still have no idea how to get them clean with Arnold 5 and later except for using crazy sample values. Why has that been changed? In Arnold 4 it worked just fine. Anyway what do I have to do to make the volume sample settings count?
0 Likes 0 · ·
0 Likes 0 · ·
Sorry I should have been more precise. I meant https://docs.arnoldrenderer.com/display/A5AF3DSUG/Volume+Parameters#VolumeParameters-Samples Behaving similar to the dome light i.e. the samples settings have pretty much no effect. Was fine with Arnold 4.
0 Likes 0 · ·
Ciro Cardoso avatar image
Ciro Cardoso answered ·

I tried to record it to show what happens.

https://we.tl/t-urQR5ctD5e

If I disable the preview I still get a noise render with the same settings that I would use for production. Here is an example

ActiveShade

Production


Btw for ActiveShade in this example I am actually using CameraAA 4 and for Production 3



activeshade.jpg (178.6 KiB)
production.jpg (107.0 KiB)
9 comments Share
10 |600 characters needed characters left characters exceeded

Up to 5 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 2.0 MiB each and 9.8 MiB total.

Those can't be the same settings. Can you get an Arnold log for each?
or maybe even upload the scene somewhere, or send it to support?

0 Likes 0 · ·
Ciro Cardoso avatar image Ciro Cardoso Stephen Blair ♦♦ ·

Is there an email I can send the scene? I am using the same samples for ActiveShade and Production.

0 Likes 0 · ·

support at arnoldrenderer dot com

0 Likes 0 · ·
Show more comments
Stephen Blair avatar image
Stephen Blair answered ·

I don't repro the problem.

The preview render goes up to AA = 0 only, so it can't be better than a render with the actual camera AA settings.

What do you get when you disable Preview?

Share
10 |600 characters needed characters left characters exceeded

Up to 5 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 2.0 MiB each and 9.8 MiB total.

Ciro Cardoso avatar image
Ciro Cardoso answered ·

I have the same issue. Makes me think that this happened after the latest update. I am using progressive rendering now to clean the image.

Share
10 |600 characters needed characters left characters exceeded

Up to 5 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 2.0 MiB each and 9.8 MiB total.

Write an Answer

Hint: Notify or tag a user in this post by typing @username.

Up to 5 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 2.0 MiB each and 9.8 MiB total.

Welcome to the Arnold Answers community.

This is the place for Arnold renderer users everywhere to ask and answer rendering questions, and share knowledge about using Arnold, Arnold plugins, workflows and developing tools with Arnold.

If you are a new user to Arnold Answers, please first check out our FAQ and User Guide for more information.

When posting questions, please be sure to select the appropriate Space for your Arnold plugin and include the plugin version you are using.

Please include images, scene and log files whenever possible as this helps the community answer your questions.

Instructions for generating full verbosity log files are available for MtoA, MaxtoA, C4DtoA, HtoA, KtoA, and Kick.

If you are looking for Arnold Documentation and Support please visit the Arnold Support site.

To try Arnold please visit the Arnold Trial page.

Bottom No panel present for this section.